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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptics own podcast for

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the 16th of April 2017 episode number

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443 edging forward to that day for 50

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mark Richard Saunders here with you from

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Sydney Australia last couple of days

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warm and sunny very good for those

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crowds heading for the royal easter show

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the big annual well agricultural

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exhibition here in sydney with rides and

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cows and horses and sheeps and dogs and

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goats and ducks and pigs and chickens

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and all the rest but you don't want to

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hear about goats and cows and chickens

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and ducks and pigs and guinea pigs and

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mice and hamsters and horses and mules

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and you want to hear about what's coming

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up on this week's episode of the skeptic

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zone to the brevi a turd version this

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week it's the shorten its The Reader's

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Digest commuting sized bite-size edition

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of the skeptic zone lots of people are

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very busy and it's holidays here in

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Australia so yeah a bit of a shortened

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episode but some interesting things

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nevertheless we're going to kick off

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with my recent radio segment here in

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Australia now every week I do a segment

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with an old friend of mine Mike Williams

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the radio announced and he used to be on

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TV many years ago he does late nights

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midnight to dawn weekends all over

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Australia and I've scored a regular

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segment talking about skeptical Madison

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I thought I'd play you the latest one

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which was all about strange energies

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power balance wristbands scalar energy

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or go on energy reiki gets a mention

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also things like that give you a flavor

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what late night radio is like here in

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Australia so mystical energies with Mike

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Williams that's my radio segment coming

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up at the top of the show following that

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news of the Blackmore's vitamin company

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here in Australia recently donating 10

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million dollars to the National

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Institute of complementary medicine at

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Western Sydney University to research

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alternative medicine the story comes to

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us from the Australian skeptics that's a

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huge amount of money in anybody's book

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and there are questions raised about

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conflicts of interest with some of the

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people involved but ten million dollars

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to research alternative medicine well

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it's a pity that 10 million dollars

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can't go into research are real medicine

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or if could go into a radiotherapy or

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new cancer drugs or stem cell research I

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think that would be better spent but we

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will bring you this report a bit later

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on in the show we also have brouhaha

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from Australia science TV and this week

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the sad story of a man who ate too many

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jelly beans hmm my kid you not coming up

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also one from the deep dark dim archives

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from 30 years ago around about 1987

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there was a TV program here in Australia

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called the investigators and a lot of

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people listening in Australia a lot of

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the older people sorry well slightly

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older people will remember the

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investigators it was a consumer affairs

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program it ran for almost 10 years I

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think it was a very popular hugely

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popular at the time it won many awards

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and that was what they call it must

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viewing must-see viewing compulsory

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viewing it was an excellent show and it

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was the forerunner well many years later

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of course this other show came along the

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check out and the checkout is currently

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showing on ABC TV and it's another

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consumer affairs type program well all

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those years ago 30 years ago the

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investigators did a story about from a

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consumer affairs point of view about

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going to see psychics and clairvoyants

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and this sort of thing in fact they

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visit an astrologer a tarot card crystal

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ball type psychic and somebody who

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actually does the channeling where you

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know they'd sit in a chair and shut

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their eyes and their eyes would flatter

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a little bit and

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I Drive around and come up with a funny

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voice and call themselves something

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crazy like oh I don't know white feather

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which is what you'll hear later on in

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the show channeling remember that are

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the nostalgia 30 years ago that was

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pretty popular so all that is covered

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but more importantly or very importantly

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I guess I should say the program also

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speaks to Barry Williams who was

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president of the Australian skeptics at

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the time and you'll hear his comments as

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part of this story one from the archives

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the investigators from 30 years ago and

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its really hit home in the last little

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while doing research in the great

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prediction project and other research

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I'm doing how important it is to keep

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things news clippings radio interviews

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TV appearances all this sort of stuff to

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have it handy to refer back to it's just

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wonderful it's so important it does take

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time to collect all the stuff but is it

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is very important and it's great and it

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just reinforces to me how great it is to

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have a good library system with for

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example newspapers and magazines on

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microfilm or slowly being transferred of

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course to online to a to PDFs in

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whatever but at the moment many of them

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are still microfilm but still it's still

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quite handy to do lots of research going

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back through the archives and and it

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really hits home again the more the

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experience we have doing skeptical work

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they'll more we can look back and say

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well it's now been X number of years and

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this claim is still unproven or it's

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been 46 years since this claim was made

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what happened to it everyone's forgotten

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about it and then you see patterns

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emerging the same claims coming up again

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and again year after year after year or

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in the case of these movies like what

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the bleep do we know or thrive or the

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secret or this sort of thing every year

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three four five years and

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that area there'll be another

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breakthrough documentary with such name

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you know the the we could almost think

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to make one up couldn't we we could call

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it the movement that'll probably then be

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the next one in about a year or two

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years at last we can reveal the movement

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the secret they didn't want you to know

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about or whatever it is and that will be

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very popular and then everybody will

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forget about it I think everybody's

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hurting about what the bleep do we know

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have you forgotten about it I watched it

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and I forgot about it now here's

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something not to forget about if you're

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in Sydney on April the 22nd April the

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22nd members of the Australian skeptics

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and the skeptics own podcast and Maynard

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oh yes may not all be there will be

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joining the March for science and if

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you're interested in marching with us or

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meeting us or having a chat for the

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skeptic zone or whatever you liked it

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will be meeting at the eastern end of

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Martin place on Macquarie Street right

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at the statue of the boar or the pig

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Sydneysiders will know where that is or

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you just go to the eastern side of

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Martin place on Macquarie Street and

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there will be at about 1130-1145 on

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Saturday the twenty-second of April and

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we'll take part in this much for science

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and I think there are various other

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similar events being held around the

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world it should be interesting you'll

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see me there with my camera doing Vox

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pops with Maynard I think so if you want

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to join us just turn up Justin up say

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hello and that will see what the day

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brings also I'd like to give you an

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update i said i would an update on the

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bell gibson story bell gibson you'll

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remember was the wellness warrior the

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lady who said she had terminal brain

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cancer another horrible terrible things

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and she healed herself using natural

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remedies and she made a lot of money out

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of what were ultimately discovered to be

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deceptive claims

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she was actually quite well she didn't

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have these diseases or anything like

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that and she was made to face the music

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went to court and the judgment was

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handed down and according to a report in

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The Guardian newspaper online disgraced

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health blogger Bell Gibson has to pay

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thirty thousand dollars towards legal

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costs of Consumer Affairs Victoria and

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has been banned from making deceptive

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claims about her health in connection

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with well-being advice so at the moment

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she has been fine thirty thousand

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dollars I come not sure if that's the

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final if that's part of the cost she has

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to pay hopefully she'll be up for a lot

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more because she made a lot more money

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than thirty thousand dollars out of this

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whole affair indeed there's another

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little byline here that says Bell Gibson

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was paid seventy-five thousand dollars

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by the nine television networks for a 60

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minutes interview so that's quite

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interesting anyway we will keep you

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informed as more developments come to

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hand on that story suffice it to say I

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don't think Bell Gibson will ever be

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trusted by anybody ever again well

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that's easy to say but these people have

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a habit of coming back if we look at the

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famous case of peter Popoff who james

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randi a mask so to speak in the I think

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was the early 1980s this is the guy had

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the earpiece getting secret messages

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from wirelessly from his wife and

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pretending that they were coming these

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messages were coming from God and he

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would do all this fake healing and

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whatever well heat well he's back he's

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been back for years making lots of money

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so we'll see we'll see what the

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long-term future holds for a bell Gibson

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I'll put a link to that report in the

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show notes well that's enough for me

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right now I'm going to run downstairs

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have some have some halloumi cheese in a

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salad halloumi cheese salad Maenads

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favorite cheese I think

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what else maybe some lemon juice or a

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coffee well like contemplate doing all

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that I hope you enjoy the Skip exam

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welcome back everyone great to have your

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company wherever you may be listening to

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as it program well it's time for a

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reality check on those anomalies of life

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when it seems too good to be true it

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probably is so let's roll up the shot of

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the shadow for another session from

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skeptics Australia and of course our

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good friend Richard Saunders Richard

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welcome back to the program how are you

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good morning I'm fine and fit I'm glad

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to hear that mate look there's something

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we're talking about this morning about

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these energies yeah some of them I'm not

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all that overly familiar with but you

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sent me a YouTube do you want to start

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with that one oh yes now this is an

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interesting one we're talking about

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strange and mystical energies yes and

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what we know is the abuse of scientific

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terms the sorts of good signs out there

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but lots of people will look at nice

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juicy scientific words and say I'll have

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that and they use it to flog something

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that really doesn't work and a classic

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example of four five six years ago there

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00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:47,959
was something called the power balance

275
00:12:53,350 --> 00:12:50,810
wristbands and there were very popular

276
00:12:54,819 --> 00:12:53,360
people sporting stars are wearing them

277
00:12:56,860 --> 00:12:54,829
they were little Holograms on a rubber

278
00:12:58,540 --> 00:12:56,870
band you put around your wrist and the

279
00:13:00,519 --> 00:12:58,550
claim was it will improve your strength

280
00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:00,529
and your balance and your flexibility

281
00:13:03,519 --> 00:13:01,970
and you could perform better at the

282
00:13:05,620 --> 00:13:03,529
football and you could concentrate and

283
00:13:09,189 --> 00:13:05,630
sleep and everything all these amazing

284
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:09,199
claims and when I saw it pop up on TV i

285
00:13:13,780 --> 00:13:10,970
looked at the tests they were doing to

286
00:13:16,569 --> 00:13:13,790
prove it work than I thought oh I know

287
00:13:19,300 --> 00:13:16,579
that trick it's a body trick called

288
00:13:21,579 --> 00:13:19,310
applied kinesiology where it looks like

289
00:13:24,009 --> 00:13:21,589
the body is getting strong and weak but

290
00:13:26,199 --> 00:13:24,019
it's a bit of an illusion really so I

291
00:13:27,670 --> 00:13:26,209
contacted the good people at the Today

292
00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:27,680
Tonight program and I said look you know

293
00:13:32,350 --> 00:13:29,810
the story you ran on the power balance I

294
00:13:34,710 --> 00:13:32,360
know I know the real story behind that

295
00:13:37,210 --> 00:13:34,720
so they flew me to a delay to do a

296
00:13:39,429 --> 00:13:37,220
recording of the show they flew in the

297
00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:39,439
Australian distributor of power power

298
00:13:45,319 --> 00:13:41,610
balance and we simply put him to a very

299
00:13:46,819 --> 00:13:45,329
very easy test two so he could show the

300
00:13:49,730 --> 00:13:46,829
world that these things really did work

301
00:13:53,420 --> 00:13:49,740
and unfortunately he failed every test

302
00:13:55,430 --> 00:13:53,430
you randomly put that appear a card that

303
00:13:57,769 --> 00:13:55,440
had this little thing on it that would

304
00:13:59,810 --> 00:13:57,779
supposedly make people feel stronger or

305
00:14:01,220 --> 00:13:59,820
whatever and he couldn't pick the person

306
00:14:03,740 --> 00:14:01,230
that actually had it in their pocket

307
00:14:05,870 --> 00:14:03,750
right that's right the idea was if you

308
00:14:07,250 --> 00:14:05,880
wear this hologram on a wristband or

309
00:14:10,519 --> 00:14:07,260
even when it was on a little business

310
00:14:12,889 --> 00:14:10,529
card or a credit card it would have the

311
00:14:15,980 --> 00:14:12,899
magical effects on your body so what we

312
00:14:18,620 --> 00:14:15,990
did is we had six volunteers and we roll

313
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:18,630
the dice that and a random person

314
00:14:23,810 --> 00:14:20,730
unbeknownst to me and unbeknownst to the

315
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:23,820
the guy selling the product had the card

316
00:14:28,850 --> 00:14:26,370
on them and when he went to test all the

317
00:14:30,410 --> 00:14:28,860
people to show the show us that he could

318
00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:30,420
find out who had it because it would

319
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:32,610
change their body in their strength he

320
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:35,370
couldn't do it any of the times and that

321
00:14:41,329 --> 00:14:39,450
test on TV led eventually to big

322
00:14:42,860 --> 00:14:41,339
retractions being put up by the company

323
00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:42,870
the australian government got involved

324
00:14:47,269 --> 00:14:44,370
and said you can't make these claims

325
00:14:50,050 --> 00:14:47,279
there's no signs behind it and that's no

326
00:14:52,850 --> 00:14:50,060
bald until the whole company worldwide

327
00:14:55,220 --> 00:14:52,860
collapsed because they were selling a

328
00:14:57,139 --> 00:14:55,230
shonky product in fact it even won a

329
00:14:59,000 --> 00:14:57,149
shonky award from the other choice

330
00:15:01,100 --> 00:14:59,010
magazine that's amazing and on that is

331
00:15:03,470 --> 00:15:01,110
right at the end of the YouTube of today

332
00:15:06,259 --> 00:15:03,480
tonight program there was a professor

333
00:15:08,569 --> 00:15:06,269
came on and explained from a mental

334
00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:08,579
point of view you know if you believe it

335
00:15:13,009 --> 00:15:11,370
enough or if you take people you know

336
00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:13,019
into that area well then they're going

337
00:15:18,259 --> 00:15:15,570
to believe it basically oh yeah people

338
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:18,269
like to believe the magic pill you know

339
00:15:21,199 --> 00:15:20,130
where this band in improves your

340
00:15:22,970 --> 00:15:21,209
strength either don't worry about

341
00:15:24,650 --> 00:15:22,980
exercise just wear this band and all

342
00:15:27,470 --> 00:15:24,660
your problems are over it's very

343
00:15:30,350 --> 00:15:27,480
seductive and that coupled with a simple

344
00:15:33,500 --> 00:15:30,360
balance trick which really helps sell

345
00:15:35,269 --> 00:15:33,510
the idea and it made millions I would

346
00:15:37,639 --> 00:15:35,279
imagine this little piece of rubber

347
00:15:39,650 --> 00:15:37,649
which was priced at ten cents from the

348
00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:39,660
factories in China was being sold for

349
00:15:45,410 --> 00:15:42,930
sixty dollars where yeah amazing look

350
00:15:48,350 --> 00:15:45,420
out on the list also there was an energy

351
00:15:50,569 --> 00:15:48,360
that peter brock used to use as well

352
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:50,579
well this is an interesting one this is

353
00:15:54,889 --> 00:15:53,730
called all gone energy and I people

354
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:54,899
listening now with scratching their

355
00:15:58,040 --> 00:15:55,170
heads

356
00:16:00,829 --> 00:15:58,050
what are you talking about made ya all

357
00:16:04,639 --> 00:16:00,839
gone o RG 0 NE made famous by the late

358
00:16:06,530 --> 00:16:04,649
Peter Brock who in the 1980s was wrapped

359
00:16:08,810 --> 00:16:06,540
up in this mystical energy he was into

360
00:16:10,639 --> 00:16:08,820
all sorts of new-age things and he

361
00:16:13,009 --> 00:16:10,649
developed something called the peter

362
00:16:14,660 --> 00:16:13,019
brock fuel polarizer put it under the

363
00:16:16,430 --> 00:16:14,670
hood of your car anywhere near the

364
00:16:19,220 --> 00:16:16,440
engine and it will make your car run

365
00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:19,230
smoother faster better using mystical

366
00:16:25,430 --> 00:16:23,850
energies unfortunately it didn't and it

367
00:16:27,470 --> 00:16:25,440
led to a big falling-out with peter

368
00:16:29,780 --> 00:16:27,480
brock and now hold and at the time ah

369
00:16:32,180 --> 00:16:29,790
that's interesting and it was called all

370
00:16:34,759 --> 00:16:32,190
gone yeah but it was invented in the

371
00:16:37,910 --> 00:16:34,769
1930s by a guy called Wilhelm Reich out

372
00:16:39,949 --> 00:16:37,920
of Austria who invented all sorts of

373
00:16:41,620 --> 00:16:39,959
cabinets and devices and things based

374
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:41,630
around this mythical energy

375
00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:44,370
unfortunately he went to prison for

376
00:16:50,810 --> 00:16:47,040
selling dodgy health equipment in the

377
00:16:53,060 --> 00:16:50,820
United States and he kept selling it and

378
00:16:55,730 --> 00:16:53,070
it was a guide in prison actually which

379
00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:55,740
was a bit sad but he was selling or he

380
00:16:59,329 --> 00:16:57,570
thought he couldn't in invented a

381
00:17:00,769 --> 00:16:59,339
machine that could burst clouds in the

382
00:17:03,259 --> 00:17:00,779
air and things like that using this

383
00:17:05,569 --> 00:17:03,269
mythical land orgone energy but it's

384
00:17:07,370 --> 00:17:05,579
still being flogged today and there are

385
00:17:10,549 --> 00:17:07,380
various companies even here in Australia

386
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:10,559
selling products including phone

387
00:17:15,409 --> 00:17:13,890
Harmonizers and Wi-Fi production things

388
00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:15,419
and toothbrushes I don't know what the

389
00:17:20,329 --> 00:17:17,610
toothbrushes do based on this

390
00:17:23,510 --> 00:17:20,339
non-existent mythical orgone energy it's

391
00:17:26,120 --> 00:17:23,520
just one of the many different types of

392
00:17:28,069 --> 00:17:26,130
the energy people claim and then they'll

393
00:17:29,419 --> 00:17:28,079
just sell a product and it's funny have

394
00:17:32,419 --> 00:17:29,429
we've been talking over the last couple

395
00:17:34,669 --> 00:17:32,429
of weeks of about various things from

396
00:17:37,549 --> 00:17:34,679
the skeptical point of view that really

397
00:17:39,620 --> 00:17:37,559
just were in certain decades as well and

398
00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:39,630
I find that really interesting well

399
00:17:43,159 --> 00:17:41,280
things come and go I mean there are

400
00:17:45,020 --> 00:17:43,169
sixties and seventies and there was a go

401
00:17:47,570 --> 00:17:45,030
then you're not i mean yeah yeah i mean

402
00:17:48,860 --> 00:17:47,580
there i evergreens i mean ufos have had

403
00:17:52,010 --> 00:17:48,870
their day but they're still around

404
00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:52,020
people still like to chat about UFO uh

405
00:17:58,610 --> 00:17:55,530
in in in decades past and last century

406
00:18:00,770 --> 00:17:58,620
there was a big thing about seances you

407
00:18:02,690 --> 00:18:00,780
know maybe your darkened room Victorian

408
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:02,700
times even maybe in made all hold hands

409
00:18:07,940 --> 00:18:04,650
and to be a seance well that's sort of

410
00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:07,950
got come and gone but now we saw in the

411
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:08,880
80s there was a

412
00:18:12,350 --> 00:18:10,530
had called channeling where people would

413
00:18:14,810 --> 00:18:12,360
go into a weird state and come up with a

414
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:14,820
silly voice and pretend they were some

415
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:16,890
mythical person from Atlantis or

416
00:18:21,650 --> 00:18:19,170
whatever this is Linton these days it's

417
00:18:23,330 --> 00:18:21,660
more simple simply someone chatting to

418
00:18:25,490 --> 00:18:23,340
an audience pretending they can talk to

419
00:18:27,890 --> 00:18:25,500
dead people so these yeah these things

420
00:18:30,290 --> 00:18:27,900
come and go that was about is it Ricky

421
00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:30,300
Ricky anything now this is an

422
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:31,890
interesting one Reiki and I may go a lot

423
00:18:35,690 --> 00:18:33,690
of listeners will heard at least heard

424
00:18:38,210 --> 00:18:35,700
about raking some probably go to Reiki

425
00:18:40,850 --> 00:18:38,220
practitioners this is based on the idea

426
00:18:43,730 --> 00:18:40,860
that there's some sort of universal

427
00:18:46,100 --> 00:18:43,740
spirit life force or life energy or

428
00:18:51,170 --> 00:18:46,110
universal force whatever term you want

429
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:51,180
to use in Japan it's called key in china

430
00:18:55,700 --> 00:18:53,130
it's called Chi there's also the names

431
00:18:57,470 --> 00:18:55,710
for it it was it's just something our

432
00:18:59,210 --> 00:18:57,480
ancestors and ancestors and other

433
00:19:01,010 --> 00:18:59,220
cultures made up because they couldn't

434
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:01,020
understand the real world without the

435
00:19:07,820 --> 00:19:04,050
benefits of modern science yeah and the

436
00:19:09,230 --> 00:19:07,830
idea is that if you're not feeling well

437
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:09,240
you've got a sore shoulder or whatever

438
00:19:13,100 --> 00:19:11,250
the case may be you go along to somebody

439
00:19:15,170 --> 00:19:13,110
called a Reiki practitioner who will

440
00:19:17,900 --> 00:19:15,180
hold their hands above you and wave them

441
00:19:20,300 --> 00:19:17,910
about channeling this non-existent

442
00:19:23,090 --> 00:19:20,310
energy into your body and you feel

443
00:19:25,460 --> 00:19:23,100
better afterwards and it's been shown

444
00:19:28,460 --> 00:19:25,470
that Reiki works really well well as

445
00:19:31,220 --> 00:19:28,470
well as any other placebo in other words

446
00:19:33,500 --> 00:19:31,230
you go somewhere you pay your money you

447
00:19:35,060 --> 00:19:33,510
give your you're treated nicely you lie

448
00:19:37,310 --> 00:19:35,070
down you think something magical is

449
00:19:39,470 --> 00:19:37,320
happening you probably will feel better

450
00:19:43,910 --> 00:19:39,480
yeah but the cup of tea does that for me

451
00:19:47,330 --> 00:19:43,920
and it's a lot cheaper not yours what

452
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:47,340
about is its kayla it's kelly a scalar

453
00:19:51,470 --> 00:19:50,010
is is another one which is interesting

454
00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:51,480
and people might see that around it's

455
00:19:55,250 --> 00:19:53,130
sort of mind body spirit fairs or

456
00:19:58,100 --> 00:19:55,260
whatever the case may be the scale our

457
00:20:00,710 --> 00:19:58,110
people scalar is another scientific word

458
00:20:02,930 --> 00:20:00,720
it's a unit of measurement or is at

459
00:20:05,660 --> 00:20:02,940
least it's it implies measuring

460
00:20:07,970 --> 00:20:05,670
something it's it's nothing too

461
00:20:10,070 --> 00:20:07,980
dramatically amazing it's just something

462
00:20:11,990 --> 00:20:10,080
people using science and there's also

463
00:20:13,250 --> 00:20:12,000
quantum quantum is another one people

464
00:20:14,690 --> 00:20:13,260
who love to throw around the world

465
00:20:17,660 --> 00:20:14,700
quantum how does it work well it's

466
00:20:20,300 --> 00:20:17,670
quantum oh okay okay that's fine these

467
00:20:21,190 --> 00:20:20,310
people have come up with little pendant

468
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:21,200
you wear

469
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:23,450
your neck and they're embedded with

470
00:20:27,430 --> 00:20:25,850
scalar energy and all the same claims

471
00:20:29,379 --> 00:20:27,440
come up they'll make you sleep better

472
00:20:31,779 --> 00:20:29,389
they will improve your health they'll do

473
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:31,789
all sorts of things it gives a bit dodgy

474
00:20:36,269 --> 00:20:34,490
though and I've come across this myself

475
00:20:38,980 --> 00:20:36,279
where they say if you put this little

476
00:20:42,190 --> 00:20:38,990
scalar pendant which is a little bit of

477
00:20:44,889 --> 00:20:42,200
plastic or whatever under a flask of

478
00:20:47,379 --> 00:20:44,899
water it energizes the water with this

479
00:20:49,029 --> 00:20:47,389
mythical scalar energy you drink the

480
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:49,039
water and you can improve your health

481
00:20:53,529 --> 00:20:51,010
and it does all sorts of benefits to you

482
00:20:55,389 --> 00:20:53,539
but one of the worst claims I ever heard

483
00:20:57,879 --> 00:20:55,399
and somebody said this to me with a

484
00:21:01,330 --> 00:20:57,889
straight face is if you then put the

485
00:21:04,120 --> 00:21:01,340
water on your skin it can act as a

486
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:04,130
sunblock and that was one of the most

487
00:21:09,519 --> 00:21:07,250
odious dangerous claims I've ever heard

488
00:21:12,460 --> 00:21:09,529
I think the person making the claim

489
00:21:15,639 --> 00:21:12,470
really believed it which is a bit scary

490
00:21:16,870 --> 00:21:15,649
sure but the general the general thing

491
00:21:18,460 --> 00:21:16,880
is and I think you sit at the top of the

492
00:21:21,940 --> 00:21:18,470
show if it sounds too good to be true it

493
00:21:24,519 --> 00:21:21,950
probably is that's right always be

494
00:21:26,919 --> 00:21:24,529
skeptical people fogging you things to

495
00:21:28,659 --> 00:21:26,929
do with your health and they say oh this

496
00:21:30,279 --> 00:21:28,669
is a new thing and doctors don't want

497
00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:30,289
you to know about it or words that

498
00:21:34,360 --> 00:21:32,000
effect implying some sort of big

499
00:21:37,210 --> 00:21:34,370
conspiracy yeah we normally find that

500
00:21:39,700 --> 00:21:37,220
that's very very good reasons to be

501
00:21:41,919 --> 00:21:39,710
really skeptical let me just ask you

502
00:21:44,169 --> 00:21:41,929
before you go have you ever investigated

503
00:21:45,700 --> 00:21:44,179
crystals you know how people have

504
00:21:48,610 --> 00:21:45,710
crystals and they hang them in the car

505
00:21:51,519 --> 00:21:48,620
or yeah they feel that they have some

506
00:21:54,519 --> 00:21:51,529
energy about them that it's a well being

507
00:21:56,590 --> 00:21:54,529
or causes you know positiveness whatever

508
00:21:58,210 --> 00:21:56,600
it is oh yeah over the years absolutely

509
00:22:00,519 --> 00:21:58,220
i mean this is one of the another one

510
00:22:03,340 --> 00:22:00,529
sort of had its day in the 70s and the

511
00:22:05,620 --> 00:22:03,350
80s you know it's still around but not

512
00:22:07,299 --> 00:22:05,630
as big as it used to be right crystal

513
00:22:09,340 --> 00:22:07,309
said and this is another thing about

514
00:22:11,649 --> 00:22:09,350
abusing science I mean the science of

515
00:22:13,090 --> 00:22:11,659
studying geology and crystals is really

516
00:22:15,490 --> 00:22:13,100
interesting and it's good stuff and

517
00:22:17,860 --> 00:22:15,500
crystals were used in old radio sets

518
00:22:19,570 --> 00:22:17,870
because they have certain properties but

519
00:22:21,700 --> 00:22:19,580
they don't have any magical health

520
00:22:24,399 --> 00:22:21,710
healing properties they don't produce

521
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:24,409
energy in themselves if you hang a

522
00:22:28,539 --> 00:22:25,970
crystal somewhere it's well you might as

523
00:22:30,639 --> 00:22:28,549
well hang a glass jar or a screwdriver

524
00:22:32,259 --> 00:22:30,649
or something like that for all the good

525
00:22:34,970 --> 00:22:32,269
it's going to do it might look nice yes

526
00:22:36,590 --> 00:22:34,980
but if anybody out there be

527
00:22:38,630 --> 00:22:36,600
they a Reiki practitioner or they're

528
00:22:40,789 --> 00:22:38,640
selling something with orgone energy or

529
00:22:45,409 --> 00:22:40,799
any of the things we've mentioned i

530
00:22:48,380 --> 00:22:45,419
would like to show us how it works in a

531
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:48,390
fair test above ground independently

532
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:50,490
umpired completely look documented and

533
00:22:54,230 --> 00:22:52,770
they can show us this stuff works they

534
00:22:56,450 --> 00:22:54,240
get a hundred thousand dollars from the

535
00:22:58,580 --> 00:22:56,460
Australian skeptics we have a big prize

536
00:23:00,380 --> 00:22:58,590
that's that's always an offensive yeah

537
00:23:02,090 --> 00:23:00,390
now if people want to go to your site

538
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:02,100
would just tell us at suicide address

539
00:23:13,070 --> 00:23:08,690
again right ww skeptics Comte uske PT

540
00:23:15,919 --> 00:23:13,080
ICS or all the contact information is

541
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:15,929
there there's over 30 years of free

542
00:23:20,390 --> 00:23:17,730
magazines to download from that website

543
00:23:22,039 --> 00:23:20,400
and you people can just simply have a

544
00:23:24,159 --> 00:23:22,049
chat to us and say well what about this

545
00:23:26,270 --> 00:23:24,169
what about that and we're here to help

546
00:23:27,590 --> 00:23:26,280
fantastic Richard Saunders once again

547
00:23:29,419 --> 00:23:27,600
thanks for your time this morning and

548
00:23:31,310 --> 00:23:29,429
we'll catch you will open up the old

549
00:23:32,659 --> 00:23:31,320
shutters again next week and that have a

550
00:23:34,789 --> 00:23:32,669
chat you've had some other bits and

551
00:23:51,919 --> 00:23:34,799
pieces ok may the force be with you and

552
00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:51,929
that force me with you too and now

553
00:23:58,430 --> 00:23:54,510
direct from the cafe at Australia's

554
00:23:59,380 --> 00:23:58,440
science channel it's brouhaha with Kelly

555
00:24:01,769 --> 00:23:59,390
Wong

556
00:24:04,739 --> 00:24:01,779
[Music]

557
00:24:07,529 --> 00:24:04,749
I've been saying it forever but licorice

558
00:24:09,959 --> 00:24:07,539
jelly beans are the worst and now it's

559
00:24:12,299 --> 00:24:09,969
official offer a Canadian man became

560
00:24:14,669 --> 00:24:12,309
incredibly sick from eating too many of

561
00:24:17,129 --> 00:24:14,679
them he turned up to the emergency room

562
00:24:18,959 --> 00:24:17,139
suffering abdominal pain dangerously

563
00:24:22,049 --> 00:24:18,969
high blood pressure and low potassium

564
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:22,059
levels with no obvious medical history

565
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:25,330
to explain it doctors were stomped it

566
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:28,210
turns out he was eating a bag of 50 of

567
00:24:33,089 --> 00:24:30,690
the worst flavor jelly beans every day

568
00:24:34,829 --> 00:24:33,099
the case that he pointed out he even

569
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:34,839
kept eating them during his stay in

570
00:24:39,749 --> 00:24:37,330
hospital of course that was before

571
00:24:42,329 --> 00:24:39,759
doctors prescribe to stop his jelly bean

572
00:24:45,299 --> 00:24:42,339
waves and what do you know he returned

573
00:24:47,789 --> 00:24:45,309
to normal you see leverage contains

574
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:47,799
glossary tannic acid which can cause

575
00:24:51,539 --> 00:24:49,330
potassium balance and high blood

576
00:24:53,999 --> 00:24:51,549
pressure if you consume too much of it

577
00:24:55,619 --> 00:24:54,009
if licorice poisoning isn't a good

578
00:24:57,539 --> 00:24:55,629
enough reason to admit that these jelly

579
00:25:00,060 --> 00:24:57,549
beans are the inferior flavor that I

580
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:00,070
don't know what is and licorice lovers

581
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:06,930
for more brouhaha and Australian science

582
00:25:28,190 --> 00:25:23,440
[Music]

583
00:25:30,260 --> 00:25:28,200
as we frequently do we are run to the

584
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:30,270
website of Australian skeptics skeptics

585
00:25:36,650 --> 00:25:34,530
calm today you or an update news item

586
00:25:39,980 --> 00:25:36,660
and this one's published on the fourth

587
00:25:43,730 --> 00:25:39,990
of April 2017 by Tim mendham a very busy

588
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:43,740
man commendable blackmores donates 10

589
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:46,890
million dollars to University of Western

590
00:25:53,870 --> 00:25:50,210
Sydney alternative medicine researchers

591
00:25:55,730 --> 00:25:53,880
vitamin company blackmores has donated

592
00:25:57,919 --> 00:25:55,740
10 million dollars to the National

593
00:26:00,919 --> 00:25:57,929
Institute of complementary medicine at

594
00:26:05,990 --> 00:26:00,929
Western Sydney University the amount

595
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:06,000
described as quote untied and a gift in

596
00:26:11,899 --> 00:26:09,210
quote is a 50-50 split between the

597
00:26:14,419 --> 00:26:11,909
Blackmore foundation run by Marcus and

598
00:26:17,810 --> 00:26:14,429
Caroline Blackmore and the Blackmore's

599
00:26:20,149 --> 00:26:17,820
company itself it is said to be quote

600
00:26:22,250 --> 00:26:20,159
the most significant investment into

601
00:26:25,190 --> 00:26:22,260
research and development in the history

602
00:26:27,529 --> 00:26:25,200
of the company and quote blackmores has

603
00:26:29,750 --> 00:26:27,539
donated to the Institute before for

604
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:29,760
research scholarships and the same

605
00:26:35,270 --> 00:26:32,490
applies to the current donation among a

606
00:26:37,399 --> 00:26:35,280
range of other associations with the

607
00:26:41,419 --> 00:26:37,409
universities both in Australia and

608
00:26:44,299 --> 00:26:41,429
overseas in 2015 blackmores gave Sydney

609
00:26:47,180 --> 00:26:44,309
University 1.3 million to establish a

610
00:26:49,039 --> 00:26:47,190
chair in complementary medicine but in

611
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:49,049
the almost two years since that

612
00:26:54,020 --> 00:26:51,210
announcement the university has been

613
00:26:56,930 --> 00:26:54,030
unable to find somebody to sit in it

614
00:26:59,149 --> 00:26:56,940
when the Marcus Blackmore chair was

615
00:27:01,580 --> 00:26:59,159
first announced bruce robinson at the

616
00:27:03,980 --> 00:27:01,590
time Dean of the University School of

617
00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:03,990
Medicine told the Australian newspaper

618
00:27:09,590 --> 00:27:07,049
that he knew a backlash was coming when

619
00:27:12,340 --> 00:27:09,600
he signed off on the agreement to fund

620
00:27:15,110 --> 00:27:12,350
research into the effectiveness of

621
00:27:18,770 --> 00:27:15,120
complementary medicines quote I'm a

622
00:27:21,020 --> 00:27:18,780
skeptic but I am an inquisitive skeptic

623
00:27:23,390 --> 00:27:21,030
and it isn't good enough to sit on the

624
00:27:25,399 --> 00:27:23,400
sidelines in quote he told the paper at

625
00:27:27,799 --> 00:27:25,409
the time professor Ken Harvey had quit

626
00:27:29,799 --> 00:27:27,809
latrobe University when that institution

627
00:27:32,870 --> 00:27:29,809
signed a research deal with Swiss

628
00:27:35,870 --> 00:27:32,880
another vitamin company said that quote

629
00:27:36,899 --> 00:27:35,880
I have no doubt that Blackmore's will be

630
00:27:40,499 --> 00:27:36,909
making you

631
00:27:43,019 --> 00:27:40,509
of this link with Sydney University to

632
00:27:45,810 --> 00:27:43,029
promote their products for most of which

633
00:27:48,989 --> 00:27:45,820
there is no evidence based and are of

634
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:48,999
dubious value in quote Western Sydney's

635
00:27:53,609 --> 00:27:51,129
National Institute of complementary

636
00:27:56,129 --> 00:27:53,619
medicine has also not been without

637
00:27:58,169 --> 00:27:56,139
controversy last year it was nominated

638
00:28:00,899 --> 00:27:58,179
for the Australian skeptics bent spoon

639
00:28:02,999 --> 00:28:00,909
award and more recently it was the

640
00:28:04,830 --> 00:28:03,009
subject of an Australian skeptics

641
00:28:08,009 --> 00:28:04,840
investigation into claims made by its

642
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:08,019
director professor Ben Saracen some of

643
00:28:12,599 --> 00:28:10,090
the associations it has with the

644
00:28:14,969 --> 00:28:12,609
traditional Chinese medicine research

645
00:28:17,460 --> 00:28:14,979
involving endangered animals as well as

646
00:28:20,489 --> 00:28:17,470
the nature of another sponsor the Jacka

647
00:28:23,339 --> 00:28:20,499
Foundation which spooks naturopathy and

648
00:28:24,930 --> 00:28:23,349
homeopathy blackmores might be hoping

649
00:28:27,089 --> 00:28:24,940
for a better reaction to its

650
00:28:29,669 --> 00:28:27,099
philanthropy that it got from professor

651
00:28:33,239 --> 00:28:29,679
Robinson when he was asked if he popped

652
00:28:36,599 --> 00:28:33,249
vitamin pills quote of course not it's

653
00:28:38,129 --> 00:28:36,609
just feeding the fish and growth and in

654
00:28:39,779 --> 00:28:38,139
that story we read about the Australian

655
00:28:41,820 --> 00:28:39,789
skeptics bent spoon award I'll put a

656
00:28:44,430 --> 00:28:41,830
link in the show notes it's open again

657
00:28:48,869 --> 00:28:44,440
for 2017 if you would like to nominate

658
00:28:53,969 --> 00:28:48,879
somebody geo cleanse excuse me for the

659
00:28:56,399 --> 00:28:53,979
the bent spoon award Oh Oh dearie me get

660
00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:56,409
rid of this cough please click the link

661
00:29:00,389 --> 00:28:57,970
and if you're in Australia please go

662
00:29:03,599 --> 00:29:00,399
right ahead you can nominate an

663
00:29:06,029 --> 00:29:03,609
individual or an organization or a dodgy

664
00:29:08,159 --> 00:29:06,039
product or whatever you want to do of

665
00:29:09,810 --> 00:29:08,169
course we shall review that we reserve

666
00:29:11,399 --> 00:29:09,820
the right the stone skeptics reserve the

667
00:29:12,779 --> 00:29:11,409
right to review that nomination to make

668
00:29:15,659 --> 00:29:12,789
sure it's legitimate and it's not

669
00:29:17,969 --> 00:29:15,669
vexatious or anything like that and yes

670
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:17,979
your nomination may well end up on the

671
00:29:25,649 --> 00:29:21,690
page and who knows it may even lead to a

672
00:29:27,719 --> 00:29:25,659
rewarding of the bent spoon award past

673
00:29:30,450 --> 00:29:27,729
inglorious winners of the Australian

674
00:29:34,529 --> 00:29:30,460
skeptics bent spoon award last year it

675
00:29:36,419 --> 00:29:34,539
was Julie why Lehman PhD and the Faculty

676
00:29:39,719 --> 00:29:36,429
of Social Sciences at the University of

677
00:29:42,599 --> 00:29:39,729
Wollongong before then 2015 the

678
00:29:45,389 --> 00:29:42,609
celebrity chef pete evans for his paleo

679
00:29:47,159 --> 00:29:45,399
promotions and other quackery are we go

680
00:29:49,979 --> 00:29:47,169
back at the chiropractors association of

681
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:49,989
australia one in 20 13 2012 is

682
00:29:52,310 --> 00:29:50,730
friendship

683
00:29:54,140 --> 00:29:52,320
yield of homeopathy plus who was

684
00:29:57,289 --> 00:29:54,150
advocating magical sugar water instead

685
00:29:59,320 --> 00:29:57,299
of vaccination we go back in time 2009

686
00:30:01,610 --> 00:29:59,330
Merrill Dory from the Australian

687
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:01,620
vaccination network at the time and and

688
00:30:04,789 --> 00:30:02,850
and they changed the name to the

689
00:30:06,980 --> 00:30:04,799
Australian vaccination skeptics network

690
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:06,990
further we go back through the years the

691
00:30:12,380 --> 00:30:09,330
complementary health care council of

692
00:30:15,620 --> 00:30:12,390
australia the Lou tech free energy

693
00:30:18,350 --> 00:30:15,630
generator that was 2001 2000 was as

694
00:30:23,150 --> 00:30:18,360
mahim who claimed she could live without

695
00:30:25,070 --> 00:30:23,160
food or water hmm 1999 my Quilici the

696
00:30:28,299 --> 00:30:25,080
journalist for the documentary signs

697
00:30:31,370 --> 00:30:28,309
from God and actually he was just on TV

698
00:30:35,750 --> 00:30:31,380
last week with an update of his signs

699
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:35,760
from God sort of weeping statues sort of

700
00:30:40,549 --> 00:30:38,370
story miracles coming on way thurs and

701
00:30:43,940 --> 00:30:40,559
that sort of stuff further further back

702
00:30:46,039 --> 00:30:43,950
in the 90s the Steve visored program

703
00:30:49,549 --> 00:30:46,049
which was a popular late night talk show

704
00:30:53,330 --> 00:30:49,559
one woman's day magazine that's no

705
00:30:55,909 --> 00:30:53,340
surprise one before then and peter brock

706
00:30:59,330 --> 00:30:55,919
in 1986 for the energy polarizer based

707
00:31:02,650 --> 00:30:59,340
on oregon energy and right back to the

708
00:31:05,270 --> 00:31:02,660
very first award in 1982 which was a

709
00:31:08,930 --> 00:31:05,280
self-proclaimed psychic called Tom

710
00:31:11,659 --> 00:31:08,940
Awards who made some very inaccurate

711
00:31:13,820 --> 00:31:11,669
predictions so there we are that's a

712
00:31:15,789 --> 00:31:13,830
bent spoon award and the latest update

713
00:31:20,900 --> 00:31:15,799
from the Australian skeptics website

714
00:31:22,780 --> 00:31:20,910
concerning this huge sum of money ten

715
00:31:25,310 --> 00:31:22,790
million dollars to research

716
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:25,320
complementary medicine links to all of

717
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:27,170
that in this week's show notes

718
00:31:44,110 --> 00:31:40,210
[Music]

719
00:31:46,270 --> 00:31:44,120
from the dawn of time one blood cast has

720
00:31:48,730 --> 00:31:46,280
unlocked the secrets of science and

721
00:31:51,220 --> 00:31:48,740
technology to enrich the lives of

722
00:31:53,049 --> 00:31:51,230
billions and now after a year where

723
00:31:55,210 --> 00:31:53,059
they've unlocked the Golden Age of

724
00:31:59,350 --> 00:31:55,220
knowledge they're about to hit warp

725
00:32:00,790 --> 00:31:59,360
speed and go stratospheric hold up on Oh

726
00:32:03,310 --> 00:32:00,800
No Ross and Carrie we don't make

727
00:32:05,470 --> 00:32:03,320
extraordinary claims we investigate them

728
00:32:07,810 --> 00:32:05,480
we go undercover with fringe religious

729
00:32:09,580 --> 00:32:07,820
groups investigate paranormal claims and

730
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:09,590
we participate in pseudo scientific

731
00:32:13,780 --> 00:32:11,690
medical treatments and then report our

732
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:13,790
findings to you and yes we've even

733
00:32:20,380 --> 00:32:17,330
investigated Scientology crash new

734
00:32:23,590 --> 00:32:20,390
episodes every month at maximum fun org

735
00:32:24,630 --> 00:32:23,600
Oh No Ross and Carrie they show up so

736
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:24,640
you don't have to

737
00:32:32,850 --> 00:32:41,600
[Music]

738
00:32:51,930 --> 00:32:43,800
hello thanks for joining us on the

739
00:32:54,690 --> 00:32:51,940
investigators sorry Oscar p hot wax is

740
00:32:58,010 --> 00:32:54,700
poured onto cold water and herons are

741
00:33:03,200 --> 00:32:58,020
formed a cross means a peaceful death

742
00:33:07,110 --> 00:33:03,210
spider is misfortune tassie ography

743
00:33:11,370 --> 00:33:07,120
reading tea leaves patterns are taken as

744
00:33:16,500 --> 00:33:11,380
omens stars mean success triangles good

745
00:33:19,020 --> 00:33:16,510
fortune and squares protection these are

746
00:33:21,510 --> 00:33:19,030
the oracle bones an old chinese

747
00:33:24,420 --> 00:33:21,520
technique the bone is cracked when a

748
00:33:27,210 --> 00:33:24,430
heated needle is pushed into it shape of

749
00:33:29,849 --> 00:33:27,220
the crack is divine and your future is

750
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:33,729
mysterious extraordinary sure especially

751
00:33:37,959 --> 00:33:35,450
if you've never heard of such things

752
00:33:40,419 --> 00:33:37,969
before unbelievable of course some of us

753
00:33:42,609 --> 00:33:40,429
might say but then some of us know many

754
00:33:44,829 --> 00:33:42,619
of us do believe in the mysterious and

755
00:33:47,799 --> 00:33:44,839
extraordinary and what's this got to do

756
00:33:51,219 --> 00:33:47,809
with consumer affairs well well few of

757
00:33:53,349 --> 00:33:51,229
us put faith in bones wax or teal is it

758
00:33:55,570 --> 00:33:53,359
seems many of us secretly put faith in

759
00:33:57,219 --> 00:33:55,580
and put money into some of the more

760
00:34:00,690 --> 00:33:57,229
common occult or fortune-telling

761
00:34:04,499 --> 00:34:00,700
professions like astrology card reading

762
00:34:07,869 --> 00:34:04,509
clevo NC and yes even the crystal ball

763
00:34:09,789 --> 00:34:07,879
we've not time to analyze or properly

764
00:34:11,829 --> 00:34:09,799
test each of these professions and we're

765
00:34:13,809 --> 00:34:11,839
not out to dismantle any faiths or

766
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:13,819
beliefs you might have but let's just

767
00:34:19,809 --> 00:34:16,490
visit a few practitioners as a consumer

768
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:19,819
to see what you get for your money first

769
00:34:24,129 --> 00:34:22,010
to astrology a system based on the

770
00:34:26,799 --> 00:34:24,139
belief that the Stars influence the

771
00:34:28,779 --> 00:34:26,809
character and lives of us all what I

772
00:34:30,579 --> 00:34:28,789
normally do is I take your birth data I

773
00:34:32,889 --> 00:34:30,589
put it through a computer and I get two

774
00:34:34,510 --> 00:34:32,899
pages of print art such as that now that

775
00:34:36,250 --> 00:34:34,520
gives me a terrific amount of

776
00:34:38,409 --> 00:34:36,260
information that I could work on for a

777
00:34:41,529 --> 00:34:38,419
month on your chart alone astrologers

778
00:34:44,649 --> 00:34:41,539
John Clark pops this cosmic situation

779
00:34:46,720 --> 00:34:44,659
and interprets its influence work but if

780
00:34:49,990 --> 00:34:46,730
the birth time is correct there is going

781
00:34:52,029 --> 00:34:50,000
to be a very big change in your life

782
00:34:55,149 --> 00:34:52,039
coming up during this next 12 months

783
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:55,159
John Clark has spent 13 years studying

784
00:34:59,529 --> 00:34:57,410
astrology and runs a four year diploma

785
00:35:01,809 --> 00:34:59,539
course okay well first of all astrology

786
00:35:04,510 --> 00:35:01,819
is not fortune-telling I mean let's get

787
00:35:06,190 --> 00:35:04,520
that quite straight certainly the

788
00:35:08,370 --> 00:35:06,200
relationship between astrology and the

789
00:35:12,130 --> 00:35:08,380
other forms of what I call divination

790
00:35:13,779 --> 00:35:12,140
completely separate I consider astrology

791
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:13,789
to be a very scientific process an

792
00:35:17,799 --> 00:35:16,010
astrological reading takes two hours or

793
00:35:20,060 --> 00:35:17,809
more and that might cost you fifty to

794
00:35:21,890 --> 00:35:20,070
one hundred dollars

795
00:35:26,690 --> 00:35:21,900
like you sit down over there that chair

796
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:26,700
over their face Therese is an

797
00:35:30,830 --> 00:35:28,770
accomplished she does many things

798
00:35:33,670 --> 00:35:30,840
mystical and I owns a magnificent

799
00:35:36,170 --> 00:35:33,680
crystal ball and a very old set of cards

800
00:35:39,670 --> 00:35:36,180
Therese charges around thirty dollars a

801
00:35:44,799 --> 00:35:41,799
okay the past the present and future

802
00:35:46,809 --> 00:35:44,809
command or tarot cards are pictorial

803
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:46,819
playing cards the pictures that are

804
00:35:51,250 --> 00:35:48,890
turned up reveal a sequence of coming

805
00:35:54,579 --> 00:35:51,260
events in your life it says here that

806
00:35:56,559 --> 00:35:54,589
you have to be very swiftly in the next

807
00:35:59,020 --> 00:35:56,569
three months and you have to watch your

808
00:36:01,059 --> 00:35:59,030
money for some reason here you've got

809
00:36:02,770 --> 00:36:01,069
the card of sincerity and victory within

810
00:36:04,420 --> 00:36:02,780
a nine-month period they'll be looking

811
00:36:06,700 --> 00:36:04,430
back over your shoulder and saying that

812
00:36:09,670 --> 00:36:06,710
woman told me that and it's come true so

813
00:36:13,089 --> 00:36:09,680
that's the cards romantic as but can I

814
00:36:15,609 --> 00:36:13,099
ask you what on earth is this that's a

815
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:15,619
crystal ball John it's used in many

816
00:36:19,900 --> 00:36:17,690
different ways but it takes don't get a

817
00:36:22,630 --> 00:36:19,910
really true spot on reading it to take

818
00:36:24,670 --> 00:36:22,640
about now another hour yes certainly as

819
00:36:26,049 --> 00:36:24,680
long as you don't touch it the hand in

820
00:36:28,660 --> 00:36:26,059
what way can people get something out of

821
00:36:30,670 --> 00:36:28,670
crystal ball gazing compared to cards

822
00:36:32,500 --> 00:36:30,680
well the cards you can ask questions and

823
00:36:34,540 --> 00:36:32,510
you get very very bland answers and

824
00:36:37,839 --> 00:36:34,550
they're very spot on the crystal you see

825
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:37,849
images and symbols to visit yeah not

826
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:39,530
very much like a video what are you

827
00:36:44,170 --> 00:36:42,170
studying most people if I all people

828
00:36:46,059 --> 00:36:44,180
come here with a question and that

829
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:46,069
question by how it will be asked for my

830
00:36:51,430 --> 00:36:48,770
guides clairvoyant see the alleged power

831
00:36:53,740 --> 00:36:51,440
to see objects actions and talk to

832
00:36:56,079 --> 00:36:53,750
people he on the natural range of our

833
00:36:59,650 --> 00:36:56,089
sensors the time and spirit and these

834
00:37:02,260 --> 00:36:59,660
people in spirits speak to me they speak

835
00:37:05,620 --> 00:37:02,270
in my right ear my clairaudient ear ear

836
00:37:08,890 --> 00:37:05,630
and I see images in my third eye and

837
00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:08,900
with this I can give a spiritual reading

838
00:37:13,690 --> 00:37:11,510
Ashley born high means few to uncle

839
00:37:15,549 --> 00:37:13,700
trade but he does need a willing spirit

840
00:37:18,430 --> 00:37:15,559
guide especially with cameras and lights

841
00:37:21,069 --> 00:37:18,440
about his guide is called white feather

842
00:37:23,049 --> 00:37:21,079
and watch as he makes contact it seems

843
00:37:25,660 --> 00:37:23,059
also simple not at all mysterious a

844
00:37:27,460 --> 00:37:25,670
quick prayer and you're their father we

845
00:37:29,079 --> 00:37:27,470
come to you as children and beg you

846
00:37:33,490 --> 00:37:29,089
guide their every word and movement I

847
00:37:35,230 --> 00:37:33,500
meant well my friend we are very pleased

848
00:37:36,670 --> 00:37:35,240
you are here with us and we would like

849
00:37:38,470 --> 00:37:36,680
to say my friends are all of you

850
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:38,480
including this fellow over here needs a

851
00:37:45,660 --> 00:37:43,530
yeah I suppose I don't feel easy in

852
00:37:47,430 --> 00:37:45,670
communicating not quite knowing who I'm

853
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:47,440
speaking to you're speaking to a wise

854
00:37:50,970 --> 00:37:49,090
little guide my friend called white

855
00:37:53,220 --> 00:37:50,980
feather and we are very pleased my

856
00:37:55,140 --> 00:37:53,230
friend that you are speaking to me it is

857
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:55,150
very difficult for you to understand

858
00:37:59,610 --> 00:37:56,890
this because the people in television

859
00:38:01,020 --> 00:37:59,620
have been hoaxed so many times but we

860
00:38:03,270 --> 00:38:01,030
thank you we would like to give you some

861
00:38:04,980 --> 00:38:03,280
proof when you were younger you have a

862
00:38:08,370 --> 00:38:04,990
ring on your finger didn't you a little

863
00:38:10,020 --> 00:38:08,380
gold ring no i didn't did you have any

864
00:38:12,630 --> 00:38:10,030
jewelry that you're fond of because i

865
00:38:14,730 --> 00:38:12,640
see a little gold ring not that I was

866
00:38:16,530 --> 00:38:14,740
aware I'm not the owner or not with this

867
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:16,540
family around you who wore a gold ring

868
00:38:20,430 --> 00:38:18,850
with a coin on a clairvoyant a hearing

869
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:20,440
with Ashley would cost around thirty

870
00:38:24,570 --> 00:38:22,090
dollars you provide nothing with

871
00:38:27,300 --> 00:38:24,580
questions and honest answers and now

872
00:38:29,430 --> 00:38:27,310
back to Ashley the person as four

873
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:29,440
numbers on the lotto draw I'm afraid I

874
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:31,210
had the experience myself my cards did

875
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:33,010
not reveal a lotto numbers they didn't

876
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:34,210
really learn to me and they certainly

877
00:38:39,870 --> 00:38:37,450
won't reveal them to other people so how

878
00:38:42,390 --> 00:38:39,880
did I make out well if I were to

879
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:42,400
seriously except the collective advice

880
00:38:46,620 --> 00:38:44,410
of them all I'd be somewhat confused

881
00:38:48,990 --> 00:38:46,630
whilst a lot of the telling was very

882
00:38:51,210 --> 00:38:49,000
general the specific claims were often

883
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:51,220
wrong and sometimes one person's claim

884
00:38:55,980 --> 00:38:53,890
conflicted with another's but then some

885
00:38:58,590 --> 00:38:55,990
herbal eaters some say they don't

886
00:39:00,780 --> 00:38:58,600
believe that secretly do and some like

887
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:00,790
the Society of Australia skeptics and

888
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:02,770
their president barry williams have no

889
00:39:07,740 --> 00:39:05,890
room at all for doubt if you critically

890
00:39:08,829 --> 00:39:07,750
analyze a lot of the claim for the made

891
00:39:12,459 --> 00:39:08,839
by the mist

892
00:39:14,319 --> 00:39:12,469
people you'll realize that there's not a

893
00:39:15,950 --> 00:39:14,329
lot in what they're saying they speak in

894
00:39:19,020 --> 00:39:15,960
generalities

895
00:39:20,490 --> 00:39:19,030
like fine i can either

896
00:39:22,110 --> 00:39:20,500
or something about your personality

897
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:22,120
there have been plenty of studies done

898
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:23,530
the suggestive in fact they can't do

899
00:39:28,710 --> 00:39:27,490
that at all and if people are claiming

900
00:39:29,970 --> 00:39:28,720
these sort of things they'll be able to

901
00:39:33,330 --> 00:39:29,980
substantiate it they can't substantiate

902
00:39:35,790 --> 00:39:33,340
it and why are they any different from

903
00:39:38,370 --> 00:39:35,800
people selling shonky card it's no good

904
00:39:40,740 --> 00:39:38,380
trying to answer a person who is

905
00:39:42,810 --> 00:39:40,750
antagonistic to astrology and convince

906
00:39:44,670 --> 00:39:42,820
them in any way shape or form because

907
00:39:47,250 --> 00:39:44,680
when there's an emotional response of

908
00:39:48,450 --> 00:39:47,260
it's it's a lot of rubbish and you say

909
00:39:49,890 --> 00:39:48,460
for them but have you started it and

910
00:39:52,050 --> 00:39:49,900
they say I wouldn't even bother studying

911
00:39:54,630 --> 00:39:52,060
it obviously that is an emotional

912
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:54,640
response and is quite illogical and

913
00:39:57,390 --> 00:39:56,170
you're never ever going to change a

914
00:39:59,250 --> 00:39:57,400
person so the best thing is just not to

915
00:40:01,500 --> 00:39:59,260
argue with them at all I've become

916
00:40:03,270 --> 00:40:01,510
skeptical over the years then I think

917
00:40:04,650 --> 00:40:03,280
all you need is a normal ration of

918
00:40:06,630 --> 00:40:04,660
intelligence to understand that these

919
00:40:08,790 --> 00:40:06,640
things are highly improbable and then

920
00:40:10,590 --> 00:40:08,800
you investigate them a bit neophyte out

921
00:40:13,590 --> 00:40:10,600
not only alarm probable but they just

922
00:40:15,570 --> 00:40:13,600
don't blame don't work of course quickly

923
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:15,580
touching these fields is perhaps not the

924
00:40:20,070 --> 00:40:17,410
way to utilize these people or their

925
00:40:21,900 --> 00:40:20,080
skills the three of them seem seriously

926
00:40:23,490 --> 00:40:21,910
committed to their professions and with

927
00:40:25,380 --> 00:40:23,500
their experience they've developed

928
00:40:27,930 --> 00:40:25,390
skills in what you might call social

929
00:40:30,540 --> 00:40:27,940
therapy but whether you believe in what

930
00:40:33,210 --> 00:40:30,550
they say or not are there shonky

931
00:40:34,770 --> 00:40:33,220
operators to look out for well obviously

932
00:40:36,210 --> 00:40:34,780
because a lot of a lot of people who

933
00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:36,220
call themselves astrologers have had no

934
00:40:41,490 --> 00:40:39,280
formal training and as a teacher and

935
00:40:43,740 --> 00:40:41,500
doing a four-year course for a diploma

936
00:40:45,720 --> 00:40:43,750
you can see that I am concerned that

937
00:40:47,970 --> 00:40:45,730
other people come along and say what

938
00:40:49,110 --> 00:40:47,980
I've read a few books I can talk to

939
00:40:51,390 --> 00:40:49,120
people about their problems and I don't

940
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:51,400
believe they can are you concerned that

941
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:55,090
your profession isn't always correct in

942
00:41:00,450 --> 00:40:57,450
in in what it says very very concerned

943
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:00,460
mainly because you have people who are

944
00:41:05,190 --> 00:41:02,650
taking outrageous amounts of money

945
00:41:06,690 --> 00:41:05,200
performing magical things which they

946
00:41:08,670 --> 00:41:06,700
claim her magical things that nothing

947
00:41:10,710 --> 00:41:08,680
happens and these poor souls are

948
00:41:14,580 --> 00:41:10,720
standing back there very hurt both lost

949
00:41:16,530 --> 00:41:14,590
money in Las face too all right so magic

950
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:16,540
is magic and card readings card reading

951
00:41:21,900 --> 00:41:19,570
but who wants to be done by somebody for

952
00:41:24,150 --> 00:41:21,910
a thousand or two thousand dollars so

953
00:41:25,980 --> 00:41:24,160
just like any shopping you do if you're

954
00:41:28,110 --> 00:41:25,990
spending money on a forecast of your

955
00:41:31,770 --> 00:41:28,120
future be discerning in what you choose

956
00:41:33,900 --> 00:41:31,780
and stay in control but the last word

957
00:41:36,900 --> 00:41:33,910
here belongs to white feather and a

958
00:41:38,940 --> 00:41:36,910
prediction i'll happily believe what

959
00:41:40,950 --> 00:41:38,950
about the fortunes of the ABC the

960
00:41:42,990 --> 00:41:40,960
fortunes of the ABC my friend aren't

961
00:41:45,210 --> 00:41:43,000
good the trouble of the ABC is i don't

962
00:41:46,830 --> 00:41:45,220
specialize for all the public but for

963
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:46,840
the moment it's very difficult for them

964
00:41:50,970 --> 00:41:49,090
to be bothered by all the public but

965
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:50,980
what we are saying to you is this in the

966
00:41:55,260 --> 00:41:53,290
days of trouble the lie ahead the ABC

967
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:55,270
will be there with their cameras whereas

968
00:41:58,460 --> 00:41:57,130
the others my friend to kind of phrase

969
00:42:06,450 --> 00:41:58,470
will be washed out

970
00:42:06,460 --> 00:42:17,290
[Music]

971
00:42:22,750 --> 00:42:20,840
hi this is Heidi Robertson from the

972
00:42:25,660 --> 00:42:22,760
Northern Rivers vaccination supporters

973
00:42:28,250 --> 00:42:25,670
we are a group of concerned citizens

974
00:42:30,830 --> 00:42:28,260
dedicated to promoting good science and

975
00:42:33,950 --> 00:42:30,840
common sense in our region the far north

976
00:42:35,690 --> 00:42:33,960
coast of New South Wales this area of

977
00:42:38,720 --> 00:42:35,700
famous for its natural beauty and

978
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:38,730
relaxed lifestyle also has the lowest

979
00:42:44,390 --> 00:42:42,330
rates of vaccination in Australia we are

980
00:42:46,820 --> 00:42:44,400
out to change that by challenging the

981
00:42:48,500 --> 00:42:46,830
myths and misinformation and by

982
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:48,510
providing good evidence based

983
00:42:53,660 --> 00:42:51,810
information to the community we'd love

984
00:42:57,290 --> 00:42:53,670
for you no matter where you are in the

985
00:43:04,880 --> 00:42:57,300
world to join our fight please visit our

986
00:43:07,700 --> 00:43:04,890
webpage at ww nrvs info we also have a

987
00:43:12,020 --> 00:43:07,710
link there to our facebook page tweet us

988
00:43:14,630 --> 00:43:12,030
at in our faqs supporters that's vix and

989
00:43:17,300 --> 00:43:14,640
check us out on Wikipedia by searching

990
00:43:19,070 --> 00:43:17,310
for Northern Rivers vaccination

991
00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:19,080
supporters thank you

992
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:35,280
thank you for listening to this

993
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:38,650
bite-sized truncated mini episode of the

994
00:43:43,410 --> 00:43:41,530
skeptic zone and I do find those reports

995
00:43:46,290 --> 00:43:43,420
from many years ago quite fascinating

996
00:43:49,410 --> 00:43:46,300
that the investigators TV show from 30

997
00:43:51,089 --> 00:43:49,420
years ago looking at the same sort of

998
00:43:53,700 --> 00:43:51,099
stuff more or less we look at today

999
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:53,710
except channeling channeling sort of

1000
00:43:59,160 --> 00:43:56,050
went went away it sort of diet it sort

1001
00:44:03,060 --> 00:43:59,170
of just fell out a favor it was it was

1002
00:44:06,210 --> 00:44:03,070
always a joke I guess a channeling has

1003
00:44:08,190 --> 00:44:06,220
been replaced over the years by other

1004
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:08,200
things like that as I said in my radio

1005
00:44:13,260 --> 00:44:09,490
interview you would have heard with Mike

1006
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:13,270
Williams that sort of thing has died a

1007
00:44:19,170 --> 00:44:16,210
death then then it was replaced by the

1008
00:44:21,750 --> 00:44:19,180
modern audience type reading speaking to

1009
00:44:24,630 --> 00:44:21,760
the dead type show but you know these

1010
00:44:27,349 --> 00:44:24,640
things come and go who knows maybe in 10

1011
00:44:30,839 --> 00:44:27,359
20 years channeling will be will be back

1012
00:44:32,790 --> 00:44:30,849
who knows maybe not maybe not with the

1013
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:32,800
access people have now to check things

1014
00:44:38,220 --> 00:44:35,050
to look back at historical documents

1015
00:44:39,990 --> 00:44:38,230
online quite easily see videos yeah

1016
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:40,000
maybe maybe it won't be back maybe

1017
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:41,650
people can just simply check up and see

1018
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:45,010
how silly it was in the 1980s we can

1019
00:44:49,620 --> 00:44:47,530
only hope dear listener we can only hope

1020
00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:49,630
and I hope you're enjoying the skeptic

1021
00:44:53,579 --> 00:44:52,089
zone no matter where you are in the

1022
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:53,589
world no matter what you're doing

1023
00:44:59,099 --> 00:44:55,810
whether you're walking the dog walking

1024
00:45:00,870 --> 00:44:59,109
the cat walking the rat you're on the

1025
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:00,880
bus at the moment going to work or

1026
00:45:04,950 --> 00:45:02,530
you're on the train right now coming

1027
00:45:07,650 --> 00:45:04,960
home for the long day's work commuting

1028
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:07,660
are you driving somewheres thats snowing

1029
00:45:17,190 --> 00:45:10,810
outside is it sunny probably all of the

1030
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:17,200
above are you in bed falling asleep as

1031
00:45:21,690 --> 00:45:19,930
you listen to me did you make it to the

1032
00:45:23,220 --> 00:45:21,700
end of the show this time did you fall

1033
00:45:25,500 --> 00:45:23,230
asleep offer i fall asleep halfway

1034
00:45:26,990 --> 00:45:25,510
through i listen to podcast brian

1035
00:45:29,069 --> 00:45:27,000
dunning sends me to sleep all the time

1036
00:45:30,420 --> 00:45:29,079
honestly i fall asleep all the time

1037
00:45:34,050 --> 00:45:30,430
during podcast and i have to wake up the

1038
00:45:36,540 --> 00:45:34,060
next morning and carry on i fall asleep

1039
00:45:38,609 --> 00:45:36,550
listening to the skeptic zone maybe I

1040
00:45:41,010 --> 00:45:38,619
should repackage the show are you

1041
00:45:43,260 --> 00:45:41,020
suffering from insomnia well the skeptic

1042
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:43,270
zones for you no matter what you're

1043
00:45:46,890 --> 00:45:45,490
doing no matter what you're doing

1044
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:46,900
matter what part of the world you're in

1045
00:45:50,430 --> 00:45:49,090
thank you for listening again thank you

1046
00:45:52,980 --> 00:45:50,440
to those people who contribute with

1047
00:45:55,830 --> 00:45:52,990
paypal or patreon that skeptics on TV

1048
00:45:59,310 --> 00:45:55,840
your contribution means everybody else

1049
00:46:01,440 --> 00:45:59,320
can enjoy the show nor fall asleep no

1050
00:46:03,150 --> 00:46:01,450
both coming up on next week's show I

1051
00:46:06,030 --> 00:46:03,160
hope to bring you reports from the March

1052
00:46:08,010 --> 00:46:06,040
for science from Sydney we'll see how

1053
00:46:11,609 --> 00:46:08,020
that goes and I hope to see you there

1054
00:46:13,230 --> 00:46:11,619
but for this week with more fast asleep

1055
00:46:15,390 --> 00:46:13,240
she must listen to the skeptic zone

1056
00:46:17,820 --> 00:46:15,400
she's fast asleep on the chair next to

1057
00:46:19,950 --> 00:46:17,830
me that's good you know you're not

1058
00:46:22,350 --> 00:46:19,960
leaping up and trying to headbutt the

1059
00:46:25,380 --> 00:46:22,360
microphone with Maude fast asleep and

1060
00:46:27,450 --> 00:46:25,390
Henrietta downstairs waiting for food

1061
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:27,460
this is Richard Saunders signing off

1062
00:46:35,750 --> 00:46:34,090
from Sydney Australia you've been

1063
00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:35,760
listening to the skeptics own podcast

1064
00:46:42,330 --> 00:46:39,250
visit our website at wwc a petting zoo

1065
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:42,340
TV for contacts an archive of all

1066
00:46:48,510 --> 00:46:46,210
episodes since 2008 and our online store

1067
00:46:51,230 --> 00:46:48,520
please support the skeptic zone by

1068
00:46:54,240 --> 00:46:51,240
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1069
00:46:57,300 --> 00:46:54,250
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1070
00:47:00,150 --> 00:46:57,310
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1071
00:47:03,630 --> 00:47:00,160
support by subscribing via paypal for as

1072
00:47:05,970 --> 00:47:03,640
little as 99 cents a week the skeptic

1073
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:05,980
zone is an independent production the

1074
00:47:09,750 --> 00:47:07,690
views and opinions expressed on the

1075
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:09,760
skeptic zone and not necessarily those

1076
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:12,450
of Australian skepta tea or any other